Certificate of Loss of Nationality; Canceled US passport

31 December 2008 by Mike Gogulski
Posted in diary | 115 Comments »

I visited the embassy today in response to the call I received yesterday. I was given a Certificate of Loss of Nationality of the United States (DS-4083), for which I signed a receipt.

I also received my US passport back, surprisingly. It has been canceled by punching four holes through all the pages. A notation is made on the last page saying, “Bearer expatriated self on Dec. 8, 2008 under provisions of INA 349(a)(5).”

The staffers suggested that the canceled passport may be of use to me in proving my identity to the Slovak authorities until and in the process of obtaining my stateless person’s identity documents. Works for me, another tool in the bag.

So, it’s really real. I’m a stateless person.

Enjoy the images. Click through for full-sized scans (2-2.5MB each).

My Certificate of Loss of Nationality of the United States, DS-4083

My Certificate of Loss of Nationality of the United States, DS-4083

The data page of my freshly-canceled US passport

The data page of my freshly-canceled US passport

The last page of my canceled passport

The last page of my canceled passport

Related Blogs

  1. 115 Responses to “Certificate of Loss of Nationality; Canceled US passport”

  2. By Ryan on 13 January 2013

    I am familiar with the renunciation process as having gone through it.

    Not certain whether you absolutely need your passport or not for renunciation. Although as a practical matter they may insist upon it. However, the US foreign affairs manual says this:

    “If the intended expatriate advises the post that he or she needs the U.S. passport immediately because it contains valid foreign visas, the post may cancel the book by punching two holes in the front cover of the passport. Use a “CANCELLED” stamp on the Secretary’s message page. Do not damage the entry/exit or visa stamp or foreign visas; ”

    So at least you can keep it during the process.

    My CLN (Certificate of Loss of Nationality) was approved in 10 days. I have read it has taken a lot longer in many other cases.

    In the process of applying for a travel document, Certificate of Identity, until I get citizenship in the country where I reside. If I obtain this, then all will have gone well. Still remains to be seen whether I will get that travel document since the particular government office that issues them, has not said whether they would issue it until they see the CLN, but they did not say they would decline it to a stateless person either even when specifically asked about this.

    Even if I do not get it, it is not a serious problem because I can get citizenship after a few years. Just means I cannot travel outside the country until then. I still have all of my rights including residency, access to financial services, and able to vote in this country ( although I would not exercise the right to vote, since do not want to legitimize the system).

    Will post here with a follow-up.

  3. By Ryan on 13 January 2013

    To be clear, I would never vote because I would not want to support or legitimize the coercive system of the state.

    Perhaps it might be okay to vote on a local nonbinding proposition to express one’s view.

  4. By Ryan on 9 February 2013

    Update: Did receive the Certificate of Identity to be able to travel. Makes one wonder, what is the real worth of citizenship especially if one wants to minimize the support they give to the government establishment.

    Giving up citizenship is not something to necessarily take lightly, but from what I can see, it is a good move as long as you have a home somewhere and can obtain a travel document.

    The particular document I received, is valid for one year and can be renewed up to a maximum of four years. After that, there isn’t any other possibility other than to get citizenship or try to immigrate to another country. Unless I am content just to stay where I am until things change in the world.

    I have read a UK issued travel document to a stateless person is valid for ten years. Much more favorable. The concept of nationality should come to an end. Was reading about the Holocaust the last few days and it is really the concept of believing in countries, different races, and wanting to dominate and control which contribute to that kind of extremism. All peoples everywhere deserve respect .

  5. By Bead and Trim - USA Beading on 9 May 2013

    Very nice & Informative blog about bead fabric trim.

  6. By A. Former Slave on 18 September 2013

    I’m curious how people are getting around the tax issues these days?

    When renouncing your citizenship they try to say that you are liable for ongoing taxes.

    Anyone have any success beating this?

  7. By Ryan on 25 September 2013

    Who says you are liable for ongoing taxes? The definitive reference is going to be US tax law. Simply research it. You will find this is not the case. There is a lot of misinformation out there. Some of it probably deliberately there to mislead people.

    There may be a tax due after renunciation if you have assets of 2 million USD or more, and capital gains which exceed 650,000 USD. Otherwise, no tax.

    Once someones renunciation of citizenship is approved, at that moment, there are no longer any tax liabilities from your former country as long as you are no longer residing there.

    You may also find that your new home country gives you a multiyear tax exemption for certain categories of income which you can then take advantage of just like normal citizens of other countries can.

    You are free. Never a better time to leave the US than now. Look into leaving and cancel US citizenship. The US is no longer worth it. Your new home country may also be able to issue you a temporary travel document until you can acquire citizenship there or elsewhere. Not that citizenship is a good thing, but until the world stops requiring travel documents for travel, it can be hard to move around without a passport.

    Do your research. There are lots of good opportunities out there. So shop around. When it comes to a place of residency, the US does not rank well and will not rank well in the coming years. Hopefully in 10 years from now, things will change and there will be new opportunities there.

  8. By Stella D on 18 January 2014

    By Sean on 27 June 2009
    “Mike, as awesome as this is, I’d really suggest that you put some kind of watermark across those images. Not for the purposes of real identity theft, but 419 scammers scower the net to find passport scans like these to use as a convincer via email, so don’t be suprised if “Mike Gogulksi” turns up in someone’s inbox on behalf of the Bank of Nigeria!

    By Mike Gogulski on 27 June 2009
    @Sean: I’m trying hard to find a reason to worry about the scenario you mention, but have failed thus far.

    It would have been nice if you had paid some attention to Sean in 2009 –
    Michael Brunnet – with your US passport has been trying to scam people on the internet for their identities. Thank god I am not helpless and defenseless naive, or I would have been scammed too.

    If I knew how, I would copy the image of the passport sent to me. Your passport.

  9. By Bancof Lasteroide on 1 May 2014

    Blackie can get you one just as good

  10. By Anthony on 25 May 2014

    I read that you are of Polish and German descent. I’m concerned that due to their laws you may not be stateless and may hold citizenship of either of those countries. I know Polish citizenship is automatic to those people who are direct descendants of a Polish citizen who did not naturalize before the next person in the line. Have you researched your lineage and each of those countries nationality laws to confirm whether you are a citizen of either one of those countries? I know it’s annoying that countries impose citizenship on people, but technically, you may still be a citizen of a country, and therefore not stateless. If so, do you think you would bother to prove it to them just so you could renounce it? Or is it possible to make a renunciation without physical proof? Either way, what do you think?

  11. By Mike Gogulski on 25 May 2014

    @Anthony: My grandparents left Poland and Germany as small children circa 1900-1910. I do know that up until some point I could have obtained Polish citizenship as long as I had a living grandparent who was born in Poland. However, I never did that, and I didn’t learn about it anyway until my Polish grandmother died around 1994. I’m pretty confident that neither country would ever attempt to claim me on an ancestry basis.

  12. By Anthony on 26 May 2014

    I had an idea that I wanted to mention regarding citizenship. I don’t think it’s democratic for countries to impose citizenship on anyone at birth. The US, for example, automatically forces people born in the country to be American, which does not give them the free choice of making a conscious decision to be part of the country. Then, people expect them to be patriotic for some reason even tho they never made a commitment to the country. They are still then required to serve on jury duty and after renouncing citizenship, pay taxes. This seems highly undemocratic. Is it really reasonable that foreigners can come to the country and receive permanent residency status and be able to live and work in the country for years and then decide to move abroad and not have to pay taxes, yet people born in the US do not have the benefit of maintaining a lower status like permanent residency since they’re automatically citizens. So, they are required to serve on jury duty and if they move abroad, must pay taxes (even if they renounce citizenship, they must pay for 10 years, i believe). And not only that, but lose the right to live and work in the country. This seems extremely undemocratic. Why can’t the country either allow people to downgrade their status to permanent residents without the right to vote or have US protection abroad, but still receive travel documents or not automatically grant citizenship upon birth. Instead, allow them to be permanent residents or a similar status with the option of becoming citizens upon adulthood. This would seem far more democratic to me since it’s supposedly a democracy.

  13. By Anthony on 26 May 2014

    Therefore, people would be able to downgrade, while losing certain “privileges” of citizenship (like the right to vote), yet still being able to live and work in the country since they have roots there and travel with a travel document that does not provide protection, but does allow access to free movement. Either allow a downgrade or have people born in the country at this kind of status until reaching adulthood to make a conscious choice. I think this would be far more democratic and fair than the current system.

  14. By Guest on 26 July 2014

    Rather late to this, but to Jessica Sideways and Nunya Binness: two thumbs up!

    Real patriots don’t worry about what anyone else thinks of their country, advertise their love for it in ostentatious ways, or strike out at those who believe otherwise because they know that their patriotism lies in the heart and no one can take that away from them.

    The “patriot” you tangled with on this thread is insecure and unwilling to accept that there are people who aren’t so enamored of his country.

  15. By miguel camacho on 11 August 2014

    steve is wrong about the u.s having no jurisdiction over you in slovakia. all eu countries have to bow down to the u.s regime. my case and point is the ukranian situation. the eu was reluctant to sanction russia, but did so under u.s pressure. the u.s regime, and other western regimes also have jurisdiction even in countries like China, where the cia has been known to arrest people in hong kong. the whole idea of “sovereignty” is actually a joke. the u.s and western countries do whatever they want in the third world without any regard for the law.
    @patriot. no one is denying that alot of good things come out of america, but people want to disasociate themselves from america because of the bad things, and one of those bad things would be paid shills who try to make america look good, and others look bad. a true champion doesnt have to boast themselves. michael phelps wouldnt have to go around telling everyone he was a great swimmer. the fact that the u.s govt has to pay people to go online to tell everyone how great america is makes me question how great america really is. and another thing, true champions dont need to put anyone down. i have already seen “patriot” put down China, Mexico, North Korea, Myanmar, Cuba, Syria. Yet you never really hear China, Mexico, North Korea, Myanmar, Cuba, or Syria put anyone down, unless of course the u.s/western regimes are censoring it out. so it makes you wonder who the real bad guy is. and i’ve seen a few paid commentators/apologists for u.s totalitarianism. the west is more totalitarian than any of the countries being slandered by the west. all of the most powerful surveilance projects are launched in the west, not north korea. so you got programs like echelon, and the participants are usa, canada, australia, britain, and they use it to spy on the whole world. it isnt north korea or China. google, skype, and facebook is also used to spy on the whole world. again, no surprise that google, skype, and facebook arent based in China, but in usa! the west is the one who cires the loudest about others being authoritarian, but the west is in fact the most totalitarian, trying to take attention away from itself. just a little statistic here, the u.s regime has 6 times more prisoners than China per capita. britain also has more than China pc. another thing- the u.s regime regularly kidnaps, and arrests people all over the world. ive yet to see China, Mexico, North Korea, Myanmar, Cuba, Iran or Syria even attempt anything like this. like i said, the u.s regime is even kidnapping people from hong kong, China. can u imagine a Chinese spook kidnapping someone from the u.s.? neither can i. some of the most ridiculous things you can get arrested for happens in the usa. i remember when a 12 yr old girl was arrested for downloading songs off the internet. this would never happen in China, or Iran, but it happens in the usa, where nothing is too trivial to be arrested over, and everyone is ok with it, especially the corporate media. you can sell bananas on the street corner in China, and Iran, but if you try that in usa, europe, or canada, you’ll probably be arrested because you need a license to sell stuff on the street. the psyops that the west runs on the internet works only because the majority of the people have never been to China, Myanmar, Iran, North Korea, Syria, or Cuba. i am pretty sure that the u.s and the west will go down in history as the biggest bullshitters.

  16. By ADAM on 5 December 2015


    comments rss Comments RSS

Sorry, comments for this entry are closed at this time.

  • Categories

  • Archives

  • Core Dogma