Responding to the “proponents” of “legal immigration” at ALIPAC

6 May 2009 by Mike Gogulski
Posted in diary, people | 8 Comments »

Someone calling themselves “LawEnforcer” at the forums of the Americans for Legal Immigration Political Action Committee (ALIPAC) took notice of my public disclosure of my US Social Security card and number, suggesting that Pro-illegal wants IA [“Illegal Aliens” –ed] to steal his SSN!!!

So, what the heck, I joined the discussion. All that follows is copied from the forum thread, me quoting others indented:

LawEnforcer wrote:
Mike, ronounce your citizenship all you want.

Done that…

But the SSN you were give is not yours to give out.

Whose is it, then?

That is called aiding and aveting a crime.

A crime? Who are the victims?

LawEnforcer wrote:
The victim is the American worker who has to compete with cheap labor from illegal aliens using your SSN.

Who knows how many will use your SSN.

“The American worker” is an abstraction. Take “the American worker” into any court as plaintiff and be laughed out for lack of standing.

Which American worker(s)? And what ever happened to the homey American notion that economic competition is good?

USPatriot wrote:
To each his own Mike.

Well now that’s exactly not the principle involved in taxation.

I am a proud United States citizen

To my narrow perspective this suggests either a limited knowledge of history (Nagasaki? Tuskeegee? Guatemala? Abu Ghraib?) or a rather inhuman set of values.

and have paid my taxes willingly

Well that does save your masters the bother of sending heavily-armed enforcers after you. Did you kick in a bit extra, too, with the thought that something good might be done with it?

but of late it seems there is something sinister happening in our Government.

Of late? What, since, like, Shays’ Rebellion in 1786? The Whiskey Rebellion in 1791?

Bowman wrote:
Well Mike I guess you won’t mind us forwarding this into to SSA so they can cancel your SSN.

You are hereby invited to do so, which will save me the bother. If you’d care to provide copies of the correspondence with the SSA, I’d be grateful.

Actually are you sure this didn’t already happen when you because stateless?

Actually I am sure that it did not happen. Citizenship has no bearing on SS numbering, contribution obligation or benefit entitlement.

alisab wrote:
Hello Mike, could you tell us what has happened in your life to make you feel this way and how you truly feel about the invasion in America and how you have been affected by it? I would just like to know your history and find this very interesting. I think in some ways we will all feel the need to vent our frustrations just like you are.


My own ancestors “invaded” America just over a hundred years ago, coming from central Europe. Some of them came for economic opportunity, some came to escape religious persecution, some came in order to avoid having their children thrown into the bloody maw of war via conscription into one imperial army or another. Prior to that, other Europeans invaded, killing and robbing millions of the original inhabitants, and relegating the survivors to a second-class existence.

A lot of the frustrations I see vented on this forum are of the form:

“Illegal immigrants/immigration cause problem X”, therefore
“The government should do Y”

However, the vast bulk of these problems could in fact be mitigated by having the government STOP doing certain things, e.g.:

Immigrants are taking American jobs — abolish the minimum wage, abolish ridiculous licensing requirements for low-skilled jobs, stop rewarding idleness through compulsory unemployment “insurance” financed by the robbery that is taxation

Immigrants are filling the public schools — abolish public schooling

Immigrants are bringing in illegal drugs — abolish the drug laws

Immigrants are getting free health care while Americans who can’t afford insurance but don’t qualify for government entitlements suffer — abolish “must treat” legislation, abolish medicare, medicaid and all other socialized medicine, abolish the AMA licensing cartel that makes US medicine so bloody expensive through its guild protectionism, and on and on

Immigrants might be terrorists — abolish the American empire abroad, but expect change in world attitudes toward America to be slow

New World Order globalists are intent on using divide-and-conquer strategies to reduce national sovereignty and institute one-world government — abolish all the taxes and privileges that fund, protect and support those monsters

Pointing to problems demonstrably caused by the American state, and then asking the American state to do more in order to fix them is somehow not consonant with ALIPAC’s support for the “tax day tea parties”.

The list of immigrant “problems” which could be eliminated completely by having government quit doing things it shouldn’t be doing anyway goes on and on and on.

Then there are two remaining issues I see a lot:

Immigrants are poisoning/diluting/changing “our” culture — in the final analysis, tough luck. Adapt. Change. Deal with it. This position amounts to racism, cultural bigotry and American exceptionalism anyway. Evolve, or show the courage of your convictions by going out and threatening peaceful, migrating people with kidnapping, imprisonment and even death yourself, instead of trying to delegate the task to government, and see how that goes for you.

Immigrants ought to get in line and go through the “legal” process — there are many, many moral objections to this idea, but I’ll leave you with this thought: If immigration is morally legitimated today via legal process, how, then, could any of the original settlers and colonists who went to the Americas from Europe achieve any moral claim to their presence on the territory?

As far as my personal history… well, I guess I took the red pill.

  1. 8 Responses to “Responding to the “proponents” of “legal immigration” at ALIPAC”

  2. By Azrael on 6 May 2009

    Well I guess you set that all straight lol

  3. By Mike Gogulski on 6 May 2009

    @Azrael: … and then they got quiet. I just tweeted this at their #tags, so maybe someone else will come around and educate us some more.

  4. By Jerry on 7 May 2009

    Do you know what happens when you cnofront someones beloved ignorance with the light of truth?
    They hate you for it.
    Give all they can handle.

  5. By jdavidb on 7 May 2009

    Wow, Mike! That is an awesome explication of the answers to all of the “problems” anti-immigration folks bring up. The best ever, I’d say. All of the problems result from socialism and statism, and the solution to every single one of them is less government (actually no government), not more. Thank you especially for calling it how it is when it comes to American exceptionalism and racism.

    For the benefit of your hostile readers, I’d like to share my own immigration essay dispelling the socialist and collectivist notions behind anti-immigration sentiment, upholding property rights as the solution to the immigration problem, and validating my viewpoint from the Christian Bible, which I think is statistically more likely to carry weight with anti-immigration advocates than with the population at large. (I also believe it myself.) Maybe it will help make a difference in attitudes as well.

  6. By Seth on 7 May 2009

    It puzzles me how referencing “the Bible”, with all its contradictions and vague metaphors, could ever move a debate forward. In fact, it would seem the perfect tool to sabotage a debate by miring it in religious malarkey.

  7. By Aaron Kinney on 7 May 2009

    I love how people bitch about “illegal” aliens. They didnt choose to be “illegal” did they? When people bitch about illegal immigrants, it is not an argument against immigration, but in fact it is an argument against setting limits and caps on immigration rates.

    Anyway Mike, fucking brilliant response to the monkeyfisted e-rednecks. I wish I was there to see the sparks fly in real time 😀

  8. By Vlarg on 13 May 2009

    I just think it’s so great how people of all viewpoints are beginning to take notice of your site.

    The fact that you were even pointed out at all on that neocon site (as well as the post) is excellent, and, in fact, I am sure that you must have made an impact on their minds. Even if everyone there immediately left the post as closed-minded as before, the very fact that you were recognized and defended your positions well is going to have a continuing influence.

    It just might have made it all the easier to convince some of the people on that site to support true liberty.

  9. By Mike Gogulski on 14 May 2009

    @Vlarg: Full agreement. This, in fact, is exactly what I’m after.

    Thanks for stopping by.

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