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> <channel><title>Comments on: Demystifying renunciation</title> <atom:link href="http://www.nostate.com/2082/demystifying-renunciation/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.nostate.com/2082/demystifying-renunciation/</link> <description>ACCESS ALL AREAS</description> <lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:39:04 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <item><title>By: AJ Valleron</title><link>http://www.nostate.com/2082/demystifying-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-3328</link> <dc:creator>AJ Valleron</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:15:14 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=2082#comment-3328</guid> <description>Mike, the 80,000 per year in gross income is called section 911 in the US tax code and would not apply here.
You&#039;re quite correct on the 10,000 penalty for failure to file the Form 8854 for ten years; HOWEVER, this regime is now gone for those expatriating after June 2008.
I should do a post on this topic, but the answer is yes, though with the proviso that (at least last I checked) there is an exemption for income up to the level of the cutoff point for Social Security contributions, which is somewhere in the neighborhood of $80 per year in gross income.
Even if you make less than that, though, the IRS still thinks you ought to be compelled to file an income and assets statement each year for 10 years, and, under certain conditions, become subject to a $10k/yr fine for willful failure to file. A bit more detail on that point is discussed in terms of utter mockery here: http://www.nostate.com/1201/confrontation-with-bureaucracy-part-3/</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, the 80,000 per year in gross income is called section 911 in the US tax code and would not apply here.</p><p>You&#8217;re quite correct on the 10,000 penalty for failure to file the Form 8854 for ten years; HOWEVER, this regime is now gone for those expatriating after June 2008.</p><p>I should do a post on this topic, but the answer is yes, though with the proviso that (at least last I checked) there is an exemption for income up to the level of the cutoff point for Social Security contributions, which is somewhere in the neighborhood of $80 per year in gross income.</p><p>Even if you make less than that, though, the IRS still thinks you ought to be compelled to file an income and assets statement each year for 10 years, and, under certain conditions, become subject to a $10k/yr fine for willful failure to file. A bit more detail on that point is discussed in terms of utter mockery here: <a
href="http://www.nostate.com/1201/confrontation-with-bureaucracy-part-3/" rel="nofollow">http://www.nostate.com/1201/confrontation-with-bureaucracy-part-3/</a></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: AJ Valleron</title><link>http://www.nostate.com/2082/demystifying-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-3327</link> <dc:creator>AJ Valleron</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:12:23 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=2082#comment-3327</guid> <description>The question of US tax is really only relevant if you the expatriating person has a net wealth of over US$2m, or has paid the IRS around US$140,000 in taxes (not income, taxes paid to the IRS). Only one other category of expatriate will be caught...those who did not file their US taxes in the last five years.
If you trigger one of those above, there are two possible regimes that could apply to you:
1.  If you expatriated before 17 June 2008, the individual must file a four-page form (Form 8854) for ten years. This is called the ten-year shadow. HOWEVER, this shadow period is not PAYING US taxes it is rather a simple form (not the Form 1040 as you would normally file). And unless you have US-source income or gains (i.e., selling Apple shares for a gain, or receiving a dividend from IBM) will the taxpayer pay a penny of US tax. This regime is described in the Internal Revenue Code section 877.
2.  If you expatriated after 17 June 2008, the ten-year shadow is GONE. You will however potentially pay an Exit Tax if upon expatriation you have more than US$600,000 of capital gain. In effect, the Exit Tax pretends you sold off your worldwide assets, and if the resulting gain is more than 600k you will pay about 15% tax (assuming it&#039;s a long-term gain). The 600k is adjusted for inflation, the 15% tax could go up, and there are some downsides for the US estate and gift tax for kids that remain US citizen or resident.  This regime is described in the Internal Revenue Code section 877A.
Remember...the above two regimes ONLY apply if you trigger one of the three items. This means you have to have quite a bit of money before any of these regimes affect you.
Cheers</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question of US tax is really only relevant if you the expatriating person has a net wealth of over US$2m, or has paid the IRS around US$140,000 in taxes (not income, taxes paid to the IRS). Only one other category of expatriate will be caught&#8230;those who did not file their US taxes in the last five years.</p><p>If you trigger one of those above, there are two possible regimes that could apply to you:</p><p>1.  If you expatriated before 17 June 2008, the individual must file a four-page form (Form 8854) for ten years. This is called the ten-year shadow. HOWEVER, this shadow period is not PAYING US taxes it is rather a simple form (not the Form 1040 as you would normally file). And unless you have US-source income or gains (i.e., selling Apple shares for a gain, or receiving a dividend from IBM) will the taxpayer pay a penny of US tax. This regime is described in the Internal Revenue Code section 877.</p><p>2.  If you expatriated after 17 June 2008, the ten-year shadow is GONE. You will however potentially pay an Exit Tax if upon expatriation you have more than US$600,000 of capital gain. In effect, the Exit Tax pretends you sold off your worldwide assets, and if the resulting gain is more than 600k you will pay about 15% tax (assuming it&#8217;s a long-term gain). The 600k is adjusted for inflation, the 15% tax could go up, and there are some downsides for the US estate and gift tax for kids that remain US citizen or resident.  This regime is described in the Internal Revenue Code section 877A.</p><p>Remember&#8230;the above two regimes ONLY apply if you trigger one of the three items. This means you have to have quite a bit of money before any of these regimes affect you.</p><p>Cheers</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Mike Gogulski</title><link>http://www.nostate.com/2082/demystifying-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-2960</link> <dc:creator>Mike Gogulski</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:21:05 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=2082#comment-2960</guid> <description>@Alex: Interesting proposition. I suspect the answer is &quot;no&quot;, since Samoa is still considered US territory. You won&#039;t find an American diplomatic mission there, for example...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Alex: Interesting proposition. I suspect the answer is &#8220;no&#8221;, since Samoa is still considered US territory. You won&#8217;t find an American diplomatic mission there, for example&#8230;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: alex</title><link>http://www.nostate.com/2082/demystifying-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-2951</link> <dc:creator>alex</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:59:28 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=2082#comment-2951</guid> <description>you&#039;ve made me wonder if one could renounce american citizenship but retain american nationality by going to samoa and do some renouncing...
alex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Nationals_who_are_not_citizens</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you&#8217;ve made me wonder if one could renounce american citizenship but retain american nationality by going to samoa and do some renouncing&#8230;</p><p>alex</p><p><a
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Nationals_who_are_not_citizens" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Nationals_who_are_not_citizens</a></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: NickyTheHeel</title><link>http://www.nostate.com/2082/demystifying-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-2437</link> <dc:creator>NickyTheHeel</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 08:58:43 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=2082#comment-2437</guid> <description>I&#039;m no Constitutionalist but one has to wonder how constitutional it can be to force non-US citizens to pay US taxes.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m no Constitutionalist but one has to wonder how constitutional it can be to force non-US citizens to pay US taxes.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Mike Gogulski</title><link>http://www.nostate.com/2082/demystifying-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-2434</link> <dc:creator>Mike Gogulski</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 03:34:45 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=2082#comment-2434</guid> <description>Bastards, yes, though ultimately this is all just words on paper someplace that some people think lays responsibilities on me or others. I sure don&#039;t think that way!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bastards, yes, though ultimately this is all just words on paper someplace that some people think lays responsibilities on me or others. I sure don&#8217;t think that way!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: NickyTheHeel</title><link>http://www.nostate.com/2082/demystifying-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-2433</link> <dc:creator>NickyTheHeel</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 03:32:54 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=2082#comment-2433</guid> <description>Thanks for that.  I read the post you linked to.  Bastards.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that.  I read the post you linked to.  Bastards.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Mike Gogulski</title><link>http://www.nostate.com/2082/demystifying-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-2430</link> <dc:creator>Mike Gogulski</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 23:17:25 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=2082#comment-2430</guid> <description>It&#039;s cool, at least you&#039;re asking questions rather than flying blind...
I should do a post on this topic, but the answer is yes, though with the proviso that (at least last I checked) there is an exemption for income up to the level of the cutoff point for Social Security contributions, which is somewhere in the neighborhood of $80 per year in gross income.
Even if you make less than that, though, the IRS still thinks you ought to be compelled to file an income and assets statement each year for 10 years, and, under certain conditions, become subject to a $10k/yr fine for willful failure to file. A bit more detail on that point is discussed in terms of utter mockery here: http://www.nostate.com/1201/confrontation-with-bureaucracy-part-3/</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s cool, at least you&#8217;re asking questions rather than flying blind&#8230;</p><p>I should do a post on this topic, but the answer is yes, though with the proviso that (at least last I checked) there is an exemption for income up to the level of the cutoff point for Social Security contributions, which is somewhere in the neighborhood of $80 per year in gross income.</p><p>Even if you make less than that, though, the IRS still thinks you ought to be compelled to file an income and assets statement each year for 10 years, and, under certain conditions, become subject to a $10k/yr fine for willful failure to file. A bit more detail on that point is discussed in terms of utter mockery here: <a
href="http://www.nostate.com/1201/confrontation-with-bureaucracy-part-3/" rel="nofollow">http://www.nostate.com/1201/confrontation-with-bureaucracy-part-3/</a></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: NickyTheHeel</title><link>http://www.nostate.com/2082/demystifying-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-2429</link> <dc:creator>NickyTheHeel</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 23:11:27 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=2082#comment-2429</guid> <description>I&#039;m sure any question I have (and I have a lot) has been asked of you a million times, so I&#039;ll just ask one so as not to be an annoyance.  I have heard that when one renounces US citizenship for another that he still &quot;has to&quot; pay US taxes for 10 years.  Does that apply when one renounces US citizenship and flies solo?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure any question I have (and I have a lot) has been asked of you a million times, so I&#8217;ll just ask one so as not to be an annoyance.  I have heard that when one renounces US citizenship for another that he still &#8220;has to&#8221; pay US taxes for 10 years.  Does that apply when one renounces US citizenship and flies solo?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
