Comments on: Stateless: “It’s great being free” http://www.nostate.com/4/stateless-its-great-being-free/ ACCESS ALL AREAS Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:39:04 +0000 hourly 1 By: Doogie Harthttp://www.nostate.com/4/stateless-its-great-being-free/comment-page-1/#comment-62038 Doogie Hart Sat, 13 Aug 2011 17:51:08 +0000 http://www.nostate.com/?p=4#comment-62038 I loved it. Personally I despise nationalism, unfortunately all the pollie's manipulate society to believe that being a citizen is paramount for said society to function properly. There are no nationalities in this world, only culture. There are those open to cultural difference and unfortunately there are those closed to foreign cultures. I loved it. Personally I despise nationalism, unfortunately all the pollie’s manipulate society to believe that being a citizen is paramount for said society to function properly. There are no nationalities in this world, only culture. There are those open to cultural difference and unfortunately there are those closed to foreign cultures.

]]> By: Roninhttp://www.nostate.com/4/stateless-its-great-being-free/comment-page-1/#comment-58401 Ronin Tue, 12 Jul 2011 09:18:59 +0000 http://www.nostate.com/?p=4#comment-58401 As I mentioned, the $450 fee doesn't apply apparently if one obtains another nationality first, but DOES apply in becoming stateless. They also were clear that becoming stateless would take much longer. As my priority is becoming not-US-citizen, and not stateless, it seems to be a good way to rid myself of Uncle Sam. That is of course until Uncle Sam decides to annex my other nation. Then , I may just have to acquire a boat! As I mentioned, the $450 fee doesn’t apply apparently if one obtains another nationality first, but DOES apply in becoming stateless. They also were clear that becoming stateless would take much longer.
As my priority is becoming not-US-citizen, and not stateless, it seems to be a good way to rid myself of Uncle Sam. That is of course until Uncle Sam decides to annex my other nation. Then , I may just have to acquire a boat!

]]> By: Johnhttp://www.nostate.com/4/stateless-its-great-being-free/comment-page-1/#comment-58388 John Tue, 12 Jul 2011 07:18:38 +0000 http://www.nostate.com/?p=4#comment-58388 Hmmm, I got hit with the $450 fee. All the local Chinese gov officials laugh when they see the receipt as they can't believe i had to pay to renounce. Make sure when they issue your CLN, they do not put that you never lived in the US. They did on mine (forgot to cross that portion out) and it was hell to get it changed. Hmmm, I got hit with the $450 fee. All the local Chinese gov officials laugh when they see the receipt as they can’t believe i had to pay to renounce.

Make sure when they issue your CLN, they do not put that you never lived in the US. They did on mine (forgot to cross that portion out) and it was hell to get it changed.

]]> By: Roninhttp://www.nostate.com/4/stateless-its-great-being-free/comment-page-1/#comment-58386 Ronin Tue, 12 Jul 2011 07:14:10 +0000 http://www.nostate.com/?p=4#comment-58386 @John - Thank you for enlightening us all on your particular experience. I just came from my first renunciation appointment, and as you said, loathe are they to permitting a person from becoming stateless, and were quick to point out that once stateless one runs the risk of deportation back to the country of origin(sound like a veiled threat?) On a positive note, if one has previously obtained another nationality(slave ownership transfer?) then the process is much easier. The effective date one would cease to be US citizen would be the date oath of nationality is taken, AND would be called RESCISSION which ALSO means NO FEE would be incurred. That little tidbit came as a dandy surprise !! I asked several questions about the new, more complicated Questionnaire, and the answers were fairly reasonable and unsurprising. So, in the near future, I'll schedule my next appointment. @John – Thank you for enlightening us all on your particular experience. I just came from my first renunciation appointment, and as you said, loathe are they to permitting a person from becoming stateless, and were quick to point out that once stateless one runs the risk of deportation back to the country of origin(sound like a veiled threat?)
On a positive note, if one has previously obtained another nationality(slave ownership transfer?) then the process is much easier. The effective date one would cease to be US citizen would be the date oath of nationality is taken, AND would be called RESCISSION which ALSO means NO FEE would be incurred. That little tidbit came as a dandy surprise !!
I asked several questions about the new, more complicated Questionnaire, and the answers were fairly reasonable and unsurprising.

So, in the near future, I’ll schedule my next appointment.

]]> By: Johnhttp://www.nostate.com/4/stateless-its-great-being-free/comment-page-1/#comment-58378 John Tue, 12 Jul 2011 05:33:24 +0000 http://www.nostate.com/?p=4#comment-58378 Iniatlly the hold up was that I would be stateless. When I first went in and asked to renounce I was told it was not possible without another passport/citizenship. I sent numerous legal briefs to the Chief of the Mission at the Consulate and also to State Dept legal counsel providing I did have the right. Finally after 4 or 5 months the legal counsel confirmed I was correct and allowed me to do my oath at the consulate. Normally they are to issue the CLN after roughly one month. When that passed I kept inquiring as to why no issuance with many calls to ACS/OCS in Washington. The desk officer kept saying that due to my becoming stateless and my reasons, it would take higher up review and would take longer. I actually applied for political asylum as I had been in China for almost 9 months at that point without a passport or valid visa (it expired while they were in possession of my passport)/ Shortly after this it seems the US gov learned of this and I was told they would not issue a CLN due to this. It took my having a Fed court judge to order them to produce it before I received. If you claim no other nationality, then be prepared to be told you can not do it, they can not allow you to be stateless blah blah blah. Iniatlly the hold up was that I would be stateless. When I first went in and asked to renounce I was told it was not possible without another passport/citizenship. I sent numerous legal briefs to the Chief of the Mission at the Consulate and also to State Dept legal counsel providing I did have the right. Finally after 4 or 5 months the legal counsel confirmed I was correct and allowed me to do my oath at the consulate. Normally they are to issue the CLN after roughly one month. When that passed I kept inquiring as to why no issuance with many calls to ACS/OCS in Washington. The desk officer kept saying that due to my becoming stateless and my reasons, it would take higher up review and would take longer.
I actually applied for political asylum as I had been in China for almost 9 months at that point without a passport or valid visa (it expired while they were in possession of my passport)/ Shortly after this it seems the US gov learned of this and I was told they would not issue a CLN due to this. It took my having a Fed court judge to order them to produce it before I received.
If you claim no other nationality, then be prepared to be told you can not do it, they can not allow you to be stateless blah blah blah.

]]> By: Roninhttp://www.nostate.com/4/stateless-its-great-being-free/comment-page-1/#comment-58272 Ronin Mon, 11 Jul 2011 06:54:07 +0000 http://www.nostate.com/?p=4#comment-58272 @John, I'd like know more about your story. Particularly, I'm curious why it was so hard for you to receive your CLN, and what the holdup was due to. Since my last posting, I've been granted a new citizenship by Jus Sanguinis, but I'm not sure I want to tell Uncle Sam about it. Mike, any input before my appt? @John, I’d like know more about your story. Particularly, I’m curious why it was so hard for you to receive your CLN, and what the holdup was due to.
Since my last posting, I’ve been granted a new citizenship by Jus Sanguinis, but I’m not sure I want to tell Uncle Sam about it.
Mike, any input before my appt?

]]> By: Hanshttp://www.nostate.com/4/stateless-its-great-being-free/comment-page-1/#comment-55062 Hans Sat, 18 Jun 2011 02:54:15 +0000 http://www.nostate.com/?p=4#comment-55062 This is to Andi. I know many US and Canadian citizens who have left Norway due to the horrid treatment of foreigners and the near impossibility of finding work. In fact, things are VERY bad in each of the Nordic countries in this respect. As a renuncee, you may win some brownie points with Anti-US Norwegians (and there are many) and probably the Muslim community there, but among those who have the jobs to offer it won't matter what your nationality status is right now. For them what matters is where you were born and where you grew up and went to school. This is just something to think about regarding your future. You also appear to idealize a country which is definitely not as ideal as you have been told. It may be easier for you to find other younger people there as friends to have a drink with and joke with, perhaps even crash at their place for a time, but when it comes to getting work, taking care of your administrative affairs, getting married, asking for help when you're in a jam, being accepted as who you are by society, I can assure you that Norway is one of the most chilly, racist and apathetic countries you could have chosen. Not nice or pretty words; but the truth. So think it through and take a deep breath! This is to Andi. I know many US and Canadian citizens who have left Norway due to the horrid treatment of foreigners and the near impossibility of finding work. In fact, things are VERY bad in each of the Nordic countries in this respect. As a renuncee, you may win some brownie points with Anti-US Norwegians (and there are many) and probably the Muslim community there, but among those who have the jobs to offer it won’t matter what your nationality status is right now. For them what matters is where you were born and where you grew up and went to school.

This is just something to think about regarding your future. You also appear to idealize a country which is definitely not as ideal as you have been told. It may be easier for you to find other younger people there as friends to have a drink with and joke with, perhaps even crash at their place for a time, but when it comes to getting work, taking care of your administrative affairs, getting married, asking for help when you’re in a jam, being accepted as who you are by society, I can assure you that Norway is one of the most chilly, racist and apathetic countries you could have chosen.

Not nice or pretty words; but the truth. So think it through and take a deep breath!

]]> By: Johnhttp://www.nostate.com/4/stateless-its-great-being-free/comment-page-1/#comment-54827 John Thu, 16 Jun 2011 17:44:12 +0000 http://www.nostate.com/?p=4#comment-54827 Ronin, I was "forced" to renounce in China, which is not a 1954 Signatory country. With that being said, it has been quite difficult as I can not work or travel freely without any passport or travel document. It took awhile for the local authorities to understand what had occurred as they never dealt with this before. Luckily being a lawyer I was able to legally explain everything clearly, and they are now drinking buddies which has made life slightly easier (have trouble, can call them to say I am okay). In a few days, I'll take some free time from work and draft my story in more detail and ask Mike to publish. Ronin,
I was “forced” to renounce in China, which is not a 1954 Signatory country. With that being said, it has been quite difficult as I can not work or travel freely without any passport or travel document. It took awhile for the local authorities to understand what had occurred as they never dealt with this before. Luckily being a lawyer I was able to legally explain everything clearly, and they are now drinking buddies which has made life slightly easier (have trouble, can call them to say I am okay). In a few days, I’ll take some free time from work and draft my story in more detail and ask Mike to publish.

]]> By: Roninhttp://www.nostate.com/4/stateless-its-great-being-free/comment-page-1/#comment-54771 Ronin Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:01:42 +0000 http://www.nostate.com/?p=4#comment-54771 @John, just wondering but which country did you renounce in? And what difficulties have you faced afterwards? @John, just wondering but which country did you renounce in? And what difficulties have you faced afterwards?

]]> By: Johnhttp://www.nostate.com/4/stateless-its-great-being-free/comment-page-1/#comment-54766 John Thu, 16 Jun 2011 08:03:53 +0000 http://www.nostate.com/?p=4#comment-54766 If anyone has questions on recent expatriation with respect to statelessness, feel free to ask. I renounced in August last year and it took getting a federal court order to have the State dept turn over my CLN in April of this year. As Mike said 3 appointments and they will say it cant be done, yadda yadda, but you can push and push and harass the ACS desk officer in Washington weekly until they finally allow. I'm another proof of former American now stateless. If anyone has questions on recent expatriation with respect to statelessness, feel free to ask. I renounced in August last year and it took getting a federal court order to have the State dept turn over my CLN in April of this year. As Mike said 3 appointments and they will say it cant be done, yadda yadda, but you can push and push and harass the ACS desk officer in Washington weekly until they finally allow. I’m another proof of former American now stateless.

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