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	<title>Comments on: Being against &#8220;all authority&#8221; is silly</title>
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		<title>By: Against privilege &#124; nostate.com</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/552/being-against-all-authority-is-silly/comment-page-1/#comment-2291</link>
		<dc:creator>Against privilege &#124; nostate.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 00:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=552#comment-2291</guid>
		<description>[...] have no issue at all with consensual organization, employment, business per se. The &#8220;authority&#8220;, the power, which arises by virtue of reputation, of achievement, of value given to others, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->[...] have no issue at all with consensual organization, employment, business per se. The &#8220;authority&#8220;, the power, which arises by virtue of reputation, of achievement, of value given to others, [...]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: no third solution &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Catching Up</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/552/being-against-all-authority-is-silly/comment-page-1/#comment-854</link>
		<dc:creator>no third solution &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Catching Up</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 11:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=552#comment-854</guid>
		<description>[...] Gogulski says that being against all authority is silly.  What some anarchists oppose is all authority. What I and the (I would like to think) more [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->[...] Gogulski says that being against all authority is silly.  What some anarchists oppose is all authority. What I and the (I would like to think) more [...]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Gogulski</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/552/being-against-all-authority-is-silly/comment-page-1/#comment-761</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Gogulski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=552#comment-761</guid>
		<description>I see your point, though I read &quot;oppressive&quot; as implying authority. The most important distinction I would like to make is that the OP in this case and in many others I see attempts to liken himself to someone who is in prison, when the prison is actually one of his own choosing and where the doors all stand open. I could have chosen a better example to attack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I see your point, though I read &#8220;oppressive&#8221; as implying authority. The most important distinction I would like to make is that the OP in this case and in many others I see attempts to liken himself to someone who is in prison, when the prison is actually one of his own choosing and where the doors all stand open. I could have chosen a better example to attack.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: http://anotherroom.blogspot.com/</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/552/being-against-all-authority-is-silly/comment-page-1/#comment-759</link>
		<dc:creator>http://anotherroom.blogspot.com/</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 06:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=552#comment-759</guid>
		<description>I disagree with the way you inserted the word authority into Alberto&#039;s post. I think that your use of authority conflates expertise and power. I expand on my thoughts here: http://anotherroom.blogspot.com/2008/09/adventures-in-newspeak-authority.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I disagree with the way you inserted the word authority into Alberto&#8217;s post. I think that your use of authority conflates expertise and power. I expand on my thoughts here: <a href="http://anotherroom.blogspot.com/2008/09/adventures-in-newspeak-authority.html" rel="nofollow">http://anotherroom.blogspot.com/2008/09/adventures-in-newspeak-authority.html</a><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Gogulski</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/552/being-against-all-authority-is-silly/comment-page-1/#comment-730</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Gogulski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 23:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=552#comment-730</guid>
		<description>Thanks. The infoshop.org &quot;FAQ&quot; is the subject of a forthcoming post casting it in the light of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=No_true_Scotsman&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;no true Scotsman fallacy&lt;/a&gt; and objecting to its overall bias and utopianism. Doing so requires actually re-reading and analyzing the loathsome thing, and responding to its particulars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks. The infoshop.org &#8220;FAQ&#8221; is the subject of a forthcoming post casting it in the light of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=No_true_Scotsman" rel="nofollow">no true Scotsman fallacy</a> and objecting to its overall bias and utopianism. Doing so requires actually re-reading and analyzing the loathsome thing, and responding to its particulars.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: http://corktageous.blogspot.com/</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/552/being-against-all-authority-is-silly/comment-page-1/#comment-726</link>
		<dc:creator>http://corktageous.blogspot.com/</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=552#comment-726</guid>
		<description>Excellent post, Mike!  Crap like this is partly what made me want to start my own blog.  I think market anarchists give these gadflies waaaayy too much praise and credit, and waste too much time sucking up to them in a futile attempt to gain acceptance.

A lot of this stuff simply parodies itself.  I recall a section of the so-called &quot;Anarchist FAQ&quot; condemning hospitals for their &quot;hierarchy.&quot;  Wtf?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Excellent post, Mike!  Crap like this is partly what made me want to start my own blog.  I think market anarchists give these gadflies waaaayy too much praise and credit, and waste too much time sucking up to them in a futile attempt to gain acceptance.</p>
<p>A lot of this stuff simply parodies itself.  I recall a section of the so-called &#8220;Anarchist FAQ&#8221; condemning hospitals for their &#8220;hierarchy.&#8221;  Wtf?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Gogulski</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/552/being-against-all-authority-is-silly/comment-page-1/#comment-705</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Gogulski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=552#comment-705</guid>
		<description>Darian: Not disagreeing with you, and there&#039;s an aspect you point to that I passed over without mentioning.

The university the writer attends is most likely either a state institution itself or affiliated with a religious organization. These are authoritarian institutions by their nature, and the institutions that they spawn in turn carry the trait. The challenge of purging the school of the trait while preserving its more desirable aspects might be akin to purging God from the church while continuing the mass.

The authoritarianism in the family is a social disease that I hope to see die away just as I hope to see churches and states die away, and the use of the mentally imprisoning sort of authoritarianism is undesirable because (insert compelling argument here).

But I don&#039;t participate in the writer&#039;s university, nor do I participate with him in his family. What I do participate in with him is political society, no matter where I exist on the planet and no matter how much any of us might prefer it weren&#039;t so. When I look at what we share in common and what we might change together for our mutual benefit, I see statism as our joint target of greatest interest. Statism also back-stops and provides justification and social model-myths which serve to justify non-consensual and/or controlling relationships in other contexts. Finally, the state is the institution that both of us are forced to participate in whether we like it or not, assuming we demand to continue living within its borders -- and I do mean living, as in not being killed. To withdraw from a voluntary social grouping such as the university student body or one&#039;s biological family past a certain age is something nobody will come to you for and put a gun to your head with a fresh demand for obeisance.

You can quit coming round for Christmas, and you can quit school. But you can&#039;t quit the state. I see a fundamental difference there, and the primary target toward which I see it as desirable to focus on therefore is the truly involuntary relationship.

(more later, too many interruptions while replying)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Darian: Not disagreeing with you, and there&#8217;s an aspect you point to that I passed over without mentioning.</p>
<p>The university the writer attends is most likely either a state institution itself or affiliated with a religious organization. These are authoritarian institutions by their nature, and the institutions that they spawn in turn carry the trait. The challenge of purging the school of the trait while preserving its more desirable aspects might be akin to purging God from the church while continuing the mass.</p>
<p>The authoritarianism in the family is a social disease that I hope to see die away just as I hope to see churches and states die away, and the use of the mentally imprisoning sort of authoritarianism is undesirable because (insert compelling argument here).</p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t participate in the writer&#8217;s university, nor do I participate with him in his family. What I do participate in with him is political society, no matter where I exist on the planet and no matter how much any of us might prefer it weren&#8217;t so. When I look at what we share in common and what we might change together for our mutual benefit, I see statism as our joint target of greatest interest. Statism also back-stops and provides justification and social model-myths which serve to justify non-consensual and/or controlling relationships in other contexts. Finally, the state is the institution that both of us are forced to participate in whether we like it or not, assuming we demand to continue living within its borders &#8212; and I do mean living, as in not being killed. To withdraw from a voluntary social grouping such as the university student body or one&#8217;s biological family past a certain age is something nobody will come to you for and put a gun to your head with a fresh demand for obeisance.</p>
<p>You can quit coming round for Christmas, and you can quit school. But you can&#8217;t quit the state. I see a fundamental difference there, and the primary target toward which I see it as desirable to focus on therefore is the truly involuntary relationship.</p>
<p>(more later, too many interruptions while replying)<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Darian W</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/552/being-against-all-authority-is-silly/comment-page-1/#comment-704</link>
		<dc:creator>Darian W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=552#comment-704</guid>
		<description>As one who generally uses the word &quot;authority&quot; to name a target for abolition, I&#039;d respond by saying that we&#039;re talking about 2 different things here.  As I see it, the &quot;authority&quot; of the engineer is the mastery he or she has over the principles of engineering.  Mastery in this case would mean &quot;ability to use&quot; not &quot;ownership of.&quot;

Social or cultural authoritarianism, as in being told your place by others, induces a person to hold another&#039;s values and perceptions as superior to his own.  This is not only harmful to individualism in itself,  but also contributes to the power of political authority. 

As for the college dude in the example, he would apparently rather remove authoritarian values from the university than remove himself from the university.  I can&#039;t say I blame him.  It&#039;s also true that the person of usual college age is fresh from a life of experiencing almost constant social, cultural, and political authoritarianism, and is still frequently told that he is too young and inexperienced to know how the world really works.  So it&#039;s perfectly healthy to err on the side of anti-authoritarianism.

But as long as you&#039;re for undermining the state and against forcing me to live a certain way, I&#039;d consider you an ally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->As one who generally uses the word &#8220;authority&#8221; to name a target for abolition, I&#8217;d respond by saying that we&#8217;re talking about 2 different things here.  As I see it, the &#8220;authority&#8221; of the engineer is the mastery he or she has over the principles of engineering.  Mastery in this case would mean &#8220;ability to use&#8221; not &#8220;ownership of.&#8221;</p>
<p>Social or cultural authoritarianism, as in being told your place by others, induces a person to hold another&#8217;s values and perceptions as superior to his own.  This is not only harmful to individualism in itself,  but also contributes to the power of political authority. </p>
<p>As for the college dude in the example, he would apparently rather remove authoritarian values from the university than remove himself from the university.  I can&#8217;t say I blame him.  It&#8217;s also true that the person of usual college age is fresh from a life of experiencing almost constant social, cultural, and political authoritarianism, and is still frequently told that he is too young and inexperienced to know how the world really works.  So it&#8217;s perfectly healthy to err on the side of anti-authoritarianism.</p>
<p>But as long as you&#8217;re for undermining the state and against forcing me to live a certain way, I&#8217;d consider you an ally.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: http://radicallibertarians.blogspot.com/</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/552/being-against-all-authority-is-silly/comment-page-1/#comment-703</link>
		<dc:creator>http://radicallibertarians.blogspot.com/</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=552#comment-703</guid>
		<description>Franc needs to read this essay!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Franc needs to read this essay!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Kent McManigal</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/552/being-against-all-authority-is-silly/comment-page-1/#comment-701</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent McManigal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=552#comment-701</guid>
		<description>REAL &quot;authorities&quot;, experts, are a good thing as long as they do not decide that their expertise authorizes them to Rule over others.

Good post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->REAL &#8220;authorities&#8221;, experts, are a good thing as long as they do not decide that their expertise authorizes them to Rule over others.</p>
<p>Good post!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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