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	<title>Comments on: Agorism and ancap panarchy &#8211; a response to an Obama voter</title>
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		<title>By: Mike Gogulski</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/757/agorism-and-ancap-panarchy-a-response-to-an-obama-voter/comment-page-1/#comment-1171</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Gogulski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 02:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=757#comment-1171</guid>
		<description>Royce, thanks a lot for stopping by with your comments.

I call myself an anarcho-capitalist because that&#039;s the theoretical background (Rothbard, D. Friedman) I come from. I view anarcho-capitalism largely as a theory of Utopia, how things &lt;em&gt;ought&lt;/em&gt; to work. Getting from here to there is a revolutionary project, be it agorist or otherwise. What I call &quot;capitalism&quot; here is essentially voluntaryism - free trade, sans states. There are some defenders of anarcho-capitalism as a theory who simultaneously defend present accumulations of wealth, ignoring the historic injustices which have eventuated in them. Though I have not written much on the topic, I am certainly not one of them, and in that sense I am also an anti-capitalist.

(Apologies if I repeat myself gratuitously here)

We have no way to be sure about what might happen if the kind of world I sketch out came to be. I would very much like to see a world in which the economic/property models provided by communism, syndicalism, mutualism, geoism, capitalism and others could play themselves out in competition. If all recognize a fundamental right to secede from any DRO (or similar organization, or state) along with one&#039;s property, panarchy is the result. 

My suggestion is twofold. First, I believe the ancap prescription for sticky, effectively unlimited property titles (barring real abandonment) is necessary as an overarching system to resolve conflicts within the panarchy among the different property philosophies&#039; respective spheres. Second, I believe that over the course of long periods of time, the benefits of the ancap system would be seen by many who would then defect from other philosophies&#039; DROs.

I guess I should really do another post about this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Royce, thanks a lot for stopping by with your comments.</p>
<p>I call myself an anarcho-capitalist because that&#8217;s the theoretical background (Rothbard, D. Friedman) I come from. I view anarcho-capitalism largely as a theory of Utopia, how things <em>ought</em> to work. Getting from here to there is a revolutionary project, be it agorist or otherwise. What I call &#8220;capitalism&#8221; here is essentially voluntaryism &#8211; free trade, sans states. There are some defenders of anarcho-capitalism as a theory who simultaneously defend present accumulations of wealth, ignoring the historic injustices which have eventuated in them. Though I have not written much on the topic, I am certainly not one of them, and in that sense I am also an anti-capitalist.</p>
<p>(Apologies if I repeat myself gratuitously here)</p>
<p>We have no way to be sure about what might happen if the kind of world I sketch out came to be. I would very much like to see a world in which the economic/property models provided by communism, syndicalism, mutualism, geoism, capitalism and others could play themselves out in competition. If all recognize a fundamental right to secede from any DRO (or similar organization, or state) along with one&#8217;s property, panarchy is the result. </p>
<p>My suggestion is twofold. First, I believe the ancap prescription for sticky, effectively unlimited property titles (barring real abandonment) is necessary as an overarching system to resolve conflicts within the panarchy among the different property philosophies&#8217; respective spheres. Second, I believe that over the course of long periods of time, the benefits of the ancap system would be seen by many who would then defect from other philosophies&#8217; DROs.</p>
<p>I guess I should really do another post about this.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Royce Christian</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/757/agorism-and-ancap-panarchy-a-response-to-an-obama-voter/comment-page-1/#comment-1167</link>
		<dc:creator>Royce Christian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 11:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=757#comment-1167</guid>
		<description>Darian,
&quot;If I’m not mistaken, Konkin had similar views. If so that would make 2 agorists who probably shouldn’t be called anarcho-capitalists :)&quot;

Make that 3.  I have a severe personal dislike of being referred to as an Anarcho-Capitalist, any more.  Not only do I think that term is an oxymoron, I&#039;ve also come to consider market Anarchists and Agorists in general as profoundly, &quot;socialist.&quot;  As you noted yourself, we are hardly the defenders of coercion on the part of capital and counter economics goes by many other names.  We are essentially proposing to collaborate in order to improve our community while simultaneously striving for that individual freedom we so often argue for.


Mike,

&quot;I also believe that if we imagine agorist ancap and mutualist revolutions occurring simultaneously, that as states fade from the scene the people and property subscribed to ancap dispute resolution organizations would tend to out-compete the mutualists in terms of both profitability (efficiency, predictability, stability) as well as the balance of defections from one camp to the other...&quot;

I&#039;m not so sure. I have always been of the opinion that different systems will the float the boat of different communities in different areas living under different conditions.  For example, communist forms of organisation may flourish in some areas, particularly where government has collaborated with business owners to force workers and their families into more suitable conditions for their own personal gain, but not others whose community might be more comfortable with the framework of Anarcho-Capitalism.  Others may find the Mutualist position far more attractive. Hell you might even see some that contain multiple systems operating simultaneously in the same city. If these are ever put into practice, I&#039;ll carefully make my decision on which communities to enter based on what&#039;s best for my circumstances, and these may not necessarily be because of services provided in AnCap areas.

&quot;After that process, which would no doubt result in many large holdings of today becoming unowned and therefore homesteadable, is completed...&quot;

In my mind, this is what justifies much of the basis for the syndicalist appropriation of property by the workers.  Government and corporate property fit right into this category and the workers would be totally justified in taking command of their factories and businesses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Darian,<br />
&#8220;If I’m not mistaken, Konkin had similar views. If so that would make 2 agorists who probably shouldn’t be called anarcho-capitalists <img src='http://www.nostate.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> &#8221;</p>
<p>Make that 3.  I have a severe personal dislike of being referred to as an Anarcho-Capitalist, any more.  Not only do I think that term is an oxymoron, I&#8217;ve also come to consider market Anarchists and Agorists in general as profoundly, &#8220;socialist.&#8221;  As you noted yourself, we are hardly the defenders of coercion on the part of capital and counter economics goes by many other names.  We are essentially proposing to collaborate in order to improve our community while simultaneously striving for that individual freedom we so often argue for.</p>
<p>Mike,</p>
<p>&#8220;I also believe that if we imagine agorist ancap and mutualist revolutions occurring simultaneously, that as states fade from the scene the people and property subscribed to ancap dispute resolution organizations would tend to out-compete the mutualists in terms of both profitability (efficiency, predictability, stability) as well as the balance of defections from one camp to the other&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not so sure. I have always been of the opinion that different systems will the float the boat of different communities in different areas living under different conditions.  For example, communist forms of organisation may flourish in some areas, particularly where government has collaborated with business owners to force workers and their families into more suitable conditions for their own personal gain, but not others whose community might be more comfortable with the framework of Anarcho-Capitalism.  Others may find the Mutualist position far more attractive. Hell you might even see some that contain multiple systems operating simultaneously in the same city. If these are ever put into practice, I&#8217;ll carefully make my decision on which communities to enter based on what&#8217;s best for my circumstances, and these may not necessarily be because of services provided in AnCap areas.</p>
<p>&#8220;After that process, which would no doubt result in many large holdings of today becoming unowned and therefore homesteadable, is completed&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>In my mind, this is what justifies much of the basis for the syndicalist appropriation of property by the workers.  Government and corporate property fit right into this category and the workers would be totally justified in taking command of their factories and businesses.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Gogulski</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/757/agorism-and-ancap-panarchy-a-response-to-an-obama-voter/comment-page-1/#comment-1156</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Gogulski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=757#comment-1156</guid>
		<description>*Shrug*... One man&#039;s jargon is another&#039;s vocabulary. In any case, I trust my friend&#039;s intelligence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->*Shrug*&#8230; One man&#8217;s jargon is another&#8217;s vocabulary. In any case, I trust my friend&#8217;s intelligence.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: christhamrin</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/757/agorism-and-ancap-panarchy-a-response-to-an-obama-voter/comment-page-1/#comment-1154</link>
		<dc:creator>christhamrin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=757#comment-1154</guid>
		<description>im not sure how useful this would be to an obama voter as it uses so much jargon.  i find this is a problem w/a lot of left-libertarian/market anarchist material.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->im not sure how useful this would be to an obama voter as it uses so much jargon.  i find this is a problem w/a lot of left-libertarian/market anarchist material.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Market Anarchist Carnival no. 20 &#124; nostate.com</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/757/agorism-and-ancap-panarchy-a-response-to-an-obama-voter/comment-page-1/#comment-1147</link>
		<dc:creator>Market Anarchist Carnival no. 20 &#124; nostate.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=757#comment-1147</guid>
		<description>[...] course begs to be abused. In that spirit, I present also two things that I wrote this past month: Agorism and ancap panarchy - a response to an Obama voter, and The Golden Rule is [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->[...] course begs to be abused. In that spirit, I present also two things that I wrote this past month: Agorism and ancap panarchy &#8211; a response to an Obama voter, and The Golden Rule is [...]<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Ethan Lee Vita</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/757/agorism-and-ancap-panarchy-a-response-to-an-obama-voter/comment-page-1/#comment-981</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethan Lee Vita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 03:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=757#comment-981</guid>
		<description>You are correct. I just tend to put agorism in between mutualism and market anarchism mentally. Both mutualists and market anarchists use agorist tactics. And I had been reading a fair bit of mutualist pdfs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->You are correct. I just tend to put agorism in between mutualism and market anarchism mentally. Both mutualists and market anarchists use agorist tactics. And I had been reading a fair bit of mutualist pdfs.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Gogulski</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/757/agorism-and-ancap-panarchy-a-response-to-an-obama-voter/comment-page-1/#comment-925</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Gogulski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 14:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=757#comment-925</guid>
		<description>Ethan, just to clarify, the two PDFs I linked to are agorist literature, not mutualist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ethan, just to clarify, the two PDFs I linked to are agorist literature, not mutualist.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Ethan Lee Vita</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/757/agorism-and-ancap-panarchy-a-response-to-an-obama-voter/comment-page-1/#comment-913</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethan Lee Vita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 08:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=757#comment-913</guid>
		<description>To respond to what was written last, first:

I have a bit of the same problem. It is one of the reasons I&#039;ve stopped writing full articles, but merely thoughts.

I found your article most excellent. And oddly enough, during my recent internet loss, I found time to read numerous mutualist pdf files, including the two you mentioned, instead of RSS feeds, which I&#039;m quite behind in now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->To respond to what was written last, first:</p>
<p>I have a bit of the same problem. It is one of the reasons I&#8217;ve stopped writing full articles, but merely thoughts.</p>
<p>I found your article most excellent. And oddly enough, during my recent internet loss, I found time to read numerous mutualist pdf files, including the two you mentioned, instead of RSS feeds, which I&#8217;m quite behind in now.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Gogulski</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/757/agorism-and-ancap-panarchy-a-response-to-an-obama-voter/comment-page-1/#comment-908</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Gogulski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 17:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=757#comment-908</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Aaron! Given that I put in nearly all of my working time these days as a translator and editor, it kinda goes with the territory. Some folks have suggested I might make a career out of writing itself, though I see this as problematic since my experience shows me that if I don&#039;t care passionately about the topic at hand &lt;em&gt;right now&lt;/em&gt; as I&#039;m writing, I&#039;ll produce nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks, Aaron! Given that I put in nearly all of my working time these days as a translator and editor, it kinda goes with the territory. Some folks have suggested I might make a career out of writing itself, though I see this as problematic since my experience shows me that if I don&#8217;t care passionately about the topic at hand <em>right now</em> as I&#8217;m writing, I&#8217;ll produce nothing.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Kinney</title>
		<link>http://www.nostate.com/757/agorism-and-ancap-panarchy-a-response-to-an-obama-voter/comment-page-1/#comment-907</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Kinney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 17:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nostate.com/?p=757#comment-907</guid>
		<description>Great letter to your friend! You&#039;ve got a way with words, Mike. Perhaps that&#039;s why I&#039;ve become a regular reader of your blog :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Great letter to your friend! You&#8217;ve got a way with words, Mike. Perhaps that&#8217;s why I&#8217;ve become a regular reader of your blog <img src='http://www.nostate.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> <!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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